but there are some men out there that are really capable, believe it or not, of getting her in the position of WANTING IT real bad, instead of him forcing himself on her. then dumps her after. Just never calls again. You see, then he can say, well you wanted it, i didnt force you. OH WELL, it didnt work out. then yes, it is as you say, ” a personal decision, there should be no complaints ” then as you say, most of the men, dont really think too deeply into it. the woman are absolutely crushed, because YES, women think deeply.
a womans chemistry, is controlled by her emotional connection, it doesnt just drop anywhere, as you say.
i will take your advice and get that book, it will probably just reinforce what i am saying anyway,

I think my point was, I have NO idea what the view looks like from the womens side. You don’t know what it looks like from the guys side. There is an excellent reference book that explains all of this perfectly, it’s Dave Barry’s Complete Guide To Guys. It’s only funny, but the truth is not lost in the humor. The bottom line is, a guy either means well or he doesn’t. Find the guy who means well and most of THEM don’t really think too deeply into anything at all.

You can say that girls don’t look for the bonking. I can tell you, oh yes, some absolutely do! Really frum ones too!

And there is nothing wrong with that. Its a personal decision and as long as nobody is being forced into anything, there should be no complaints. Be respectful, be honest, and let the chips fall where the chemistry drops them.

@Z! — WRT Point 1. Not these days. A good man is not interested in chasing or being chased. A good man is interested in a partner that acts in good faith. WRT Point 2. No opinion. Someone has to travel first, but again, Good Faith/Honest Broker applies. WRT Point 3. Absolutely and unequivocally sage advice! WRT Point 4. _The Rules_ is an excellent book — for recycling.

1. Do NOT EVER under ANY circumstances write to a guy that you like first. ONLY respond to the guys who write to you. Men are NOT interestd in EASY women for a serious relationship. They LOVE the chase, but once a woman is “caught” will quickly set her free. Fooling around is one thing, sex is out of the question.

2. If the guy was serious, I made him travel to me FIRST. As you know, living in Canada doesn’t give you many options and sitting at home can be boring- BUT- when the guys have so much choice in their own backyard like NY, they are not as willing to travel, which is why SYAS often doesn’t work for Canadians. When you get one that is willing to make the effort to come after you, take it. NO half way, do NOT EVER make it easy. IF he’s the right one, he will do anything to be by your side.

3. REFERENCS, REFERENCES, REFERENCES and lots of talking to your “shadchanim”. Even if these people are not involved in the shudduch in question, keep talking through your experiences and wants with loved ones.

4. READ the book: “The Rules”- Live by them and you will get a man who will love you forever and treat you with the utmost respect, which is only what any woman deserves.

HAVE FUN! Being fun is ATTRACTIVE!

There is no question that the dating world can become extremely frustrating at times. The key is to put it in perspective and not make decisions during a frustrating moment that can affect your long term happiness. I think it’s very important to keep the following things in mind:

1. Creeps and low life’s exist. They exist on Frumster, SYAS, Jdate, Singles events, in your neighborhood, and in your shul. They are a fact of life and we are going to meet a bunch of them, no matter what method we utilize.

2. There are going to be lulls between good prospects. We all have had slow times in dating and sometimes it seems like there are no decent guys or girls out there. But then again, every once in awhile a really nice person comes along that restores our faith in humanity and gives us a glimmer of hope that there might be such a person out there for us one day.

3. Restrict who you date. Take things slow. Exchange emails and phone calls and get to know the person before meeting them. If they turn out to be one of the creepy guys then say no thanks and don’t expand any extra energy on them. Be more selective based on their profile and emails. See how they talk about these issues and what their outlook on them is.

4. Taking yourself off Frumster just makes it more difficult for your bashert to find you. What happens if your Bashert joins Frumster in 3 months from now and searches high and low but can’t find you because you took yourself off?

5. Don’t lose your open, loving, and trusting self. Nobody wants to be treated with suspicion or guilty until proven innocent. Be careful that your negative experiences shouldn’t carry over into how you treat new prospects. No decent guy wants to be treated with suspicion or like a criminal. It will turn them off and may ruin a perfectly good prospect.

6. What happens if your bashert has different circles then your friends and families? I have met people on Frumster who I would have never otherwise met. I have met some strange birds as well as some amazing people. The key is to take things slow and do the weeding process. If you get worn out by it perhaps a break is warranted. But don’t close off an avenue for your bashert.

Much hatzlocha in your search.

Hadassah, anytime one side stands up to condemn the other, that other side can stand up and do the same. I know this is your blog, but its the inherent reality of ‘opinions’ – everyone has one and nobodys is any better than anyone elses.

I think the key is – do the right thing, be the right person and find like minded, like-behaving people. The web sites really just serve to share photos and give people a chance to email before speaking…hopefully some qualification can take place. Otherwise, its one big bar that we’re meeting each other in.

IMHO

While initially I thought it was cool to see who had viewed my profile on frumster, the novelty wore off and it became slightly creepy to think that all these people were viewing me. So before my 3 month subscription was even up, I pulled myself off.

I also realized that, like me, alot of the guys on frumster were also on SYAS. SYAS was better in the privacy department, because they only send your picture and info to specific dating prospects, as chosen for you by one of your “matchmakers”. After a bunch of bad suggestions and bad dates from SYAS I let that subscription run out too.

Ironically I met the guy that i have been dating for the last 7 months on Jdate (which I hadn’t been actively looking on because of the lack of frum guys). He is frum and nice and it just goes to show that you never know where the right guy will turn up.

As far as divorced guys not accepting any personal responsibility for their divorces, I think that it’s not just a guy thing. Most divorced guys AND girls that I know have no sense of personal responsibility for their divorces. No one wants to admit that they were even a little at fault for their situations.

They can even quote you gemarot that say that a husbund does not have to be faithful to his wife, etc.

Now when you go to a Rabbi and want to know the details (what does the halakha really say about men engaging in extraconjugal affairs), you will never get a clear answer.
And than they say: oh well, these are exceptions, these are the few black sheep…

But I do not think it is so rare and I really do suspect that there is a bias in halakha.

1 — While I can’t speak to the Canadian courts, US courts favor the Moms. Period. Unless the Mom is a stark raving homicidal maniac, they generally favor what the Mom says, insofar as they favor one parent or the other. [And even then it is questionable.] So while yes, it does “take two to tango”, in a number of cases, the Mom’s partner is not the Dad, but the Court. Sucks, but true.

2 — Frumster used to have a much higher caliber of members, but about a year (or so) ago, the people running the service made a business decision to broaden the appeal of the service to make it more appealing to a potential buyer. They broadened the self-categorization aspects to encompass less-observant Yiddim, and discontinued some of the verifications services. So while Frumster has not reached the level of say, JDate, the quality of the people using the service has certainly changed.

For whatever reason, these issues are not discussed or addressed, as though closing our eyes to them will make them vanish, or turning to Rabbyim who are not well equipped to address these issues will in turn diminish them. The scope is (G-d willing!) less then in the secular community, but the problems of the community are our problems too. For better or worse.