Frumster Files – Closing Arguments

OK, we all know couples who met on Frumster, got married and live a very happy life together. If I recall correctly Frumster boasts over 1100 matches made (it doesn’t say marriages, it says matches….interesting turn of phrase). I am very happy for these people, and it shows that these sites could work.


I took myself off Frumster almost a month ago. I got so sick and tired of the misrepresentation and the lying and the cheating and the guys who are still married, the men who cannot string a coherent sentence together, the ones who cannot even be bothered to put any effort into wooing you. “do you wanna $#@^?” – that doesn’t count as an expression of interest in my book.


Many of the divorced guys on Frumster, when discussing their divorces, have blamed the ex wife for being totally unbalanced and psychotic, none of them apparently have any blame at all in the break up of their marriage (it takes two to tango, no one is 100% blameless in a divorce). I just find it so interesting that the courts are so repeatedly uninterested in the welfare of the kids that they keep awarding custody to psychotically deranged homicidal maniacal mothers. What is this world coming to? Can no one in this day and age take any responsibility whatsoever? Is it too much to ask for a guy to say “yes we had problems, and I didn’t do enough to help fix them” or “there were issues I ignored” or even “I cheated, and I was wrong..” – does it hurt to be humble, human and honest?


I have been asked the most rude and disgusting questions, from men who present themselves as being above that kind of thing – their profiles all say how they are kovea itim (ie they make time to learn every day). “We’ll have plenty of tefillin dates, but at least we daven and at least we learn. We may be bonking half of the city’s single female population, but at least we can quote gemara.” (oh and they won’t use protection, apparently, because it’s against the torah….oy vey don’t get me started).


I like the premise of Frumster, I like what it sets out to do, to aid and abet religious Jewish singles to meet and marry like-minded individuals. There just needs to be a way for the administrators to check out the people, to vet them, like other dating sites do – I saw you at Sinai, for example. In this day and age we should know better than to be so trusting, but we don’t seem to learn. There is no substitute for introductions through mutual friends who actually KNOW both parties well.


For those of you continuing with Frumster and the like – good luck, please keep your wits about you, don’t meet with anyone until you have checked them out thoroughly – that means not just calling the references you are given, but find someone you know in the area where they live so you can ask a non-biased party for their opinion.


I have complete and utter faith that my knight in shining armour is out there, its even possible we have already met – but sadly Frumster will have to manage without my hard earned cash supporting it.


I am very interested to hear your opinions – experiences etc.

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10 responses to “Frumster Files – Closing Arguments

  1. David ben Tzvi Hirsh

    A couple things.

    1 — While I can’t speak to the Canadian courts, US courts favor the Moms. Period. Unless the Mom is a stark raving homicidal maniac, they generally favor what the Mom says, insofar as they favor one parent or the other. [And even then it is questionable.] So while yes, it does “take two to tango”, in a number of cases, the Mom’s partner is not the Dad, but the Court. Sucks, but true.

    2 — Frumster used to have a much higher caliber of members, but about a year (or so) ago, the people running the service made a business decision to broaden the appeal of the service to make it more appealing to a potential buyer. They broadened the self-categorization aspects to encompass less-observant Yiddim, and discontinued some of the verifications services. So while Frumster has not reached the level of say, JDate, the quality of the people using the service has certainly changed.

    For whatever reason, these issues are not discussed or addressed, as though closing our eyes to them will make them vanish, or turning to Rabbyim who are not well equipped to address these issues will in turn diminish them. The scope is (G-d willing!) less then in the secular community, but the problems of the community are our problems too. For better or worse.

  2. I got the impression that “bonking half of the city’s female population, but at least we can quote gemara” is a quite widespread phenomenon. Thank you for confirming it.

    They can even quote you gemarot that say that a husbund does not have to be faithful to his wife, etc.

    Now when you go to a Rabbi and want to know the details (what does the halakha really say about men engaging in extraconjugal affairs), you will never get a clear answer.
    And than they say: oh well, these are exceptions, these are the few black sheep…

    But I do not think it is so rare and I really do suspect that there is a bias in halakha.

  3. When I started dating after my divorce, I put myself on Frumster, Saw you at Sinai and Jdate. I quickly realized that the same guys that were on frumster, were on SYAS and that there were very few frum guys on Jdate.

    While initially I thought it was cool to see who had viewed my profile on frumster, the novelty wore off and it became slightly creepy to think that all these people were viewing me. So before my 3 month subscription was even up, I pulled myself off.

    I also realized that, like me, alot of the guys on frumster were also on SYAS. SYAS was better in the privacy department, because they only send your picture and info to specific dating prospects, as chosen for you by one of your “matchmakers”. After a bunch of bad suggestions and bad dates from SYAS I let that subscription run out too.

    Ironically I met the guy that i have been dating for the last 7 months on Jdate (which I hadn’t been actively looking on because of the lack of frum guys). He is frum and nice and it just goes to show that you never know where the right guy will turn up.

    As far as divorced guys not accepting any personal responsibility for their divorces, I think that it’s not just a guy thing. Most divorced guys AND girls that I know have no sense of personal responsibility for their divorces. No one wants to admit that they were even a little at fault for their situations.

  4. The problem with perspectives is that each one is, itself, one-sided. I don’t think you’re wrong in anything you say, but the guys who are bonking are…bonking girls. Meaning, it DOES take two to tango.

    Hadassah, anytime one side stands up to condemn the other, that other side can stand up and do the same. I know this is your blog, but its the inherent reality of ‘opinions’ – everyone has one and nobodys is any better than anyone elses.

    I think the key is – do the right thing, be the right person and find like minded, like-behaving people. The web sites really just serve to share photos and give people a chance to email before speaking…hopefully some qualification can take place. Otherwise, its one big bar that we’re meeting each other in.


  5. Someone Else – in some cases i can agree with you, the problem is, in general the girls/ women are really only falling for these men, because they really believe these men. Women do not look to run to the ” bonking ” . Women are not looking for a one night stand, these men convince the women they want the same in a relationship, just to get them where they want them and once they got it, they’re gone. Places like Frumster and Jdate just make it easier for these women to become prey for the vultures. Before you go on any dates with men from these sites, seriously check out all you can in their communities and employment, dont listen to the refrences you are given by their profile. You will probably find some amazing stuff on these men, that he would not have told you.

  6. Hey Hadassah,

    There is no question that the dating world can become extremely frustrating at times. The key is to put it in perspective and not make decisions during a frustrating moment that can affect your long term happiness. I think it’s very important to keep the following things in mind:

    1. Creeps and low life’s exist. They exist on Frumster, SYAS, Jdate, Singles events, in your neighborhood, and in your shul. They are a fact of life and we are going to meet a bunch of them, no matter what method we utilize.

    2. There are going to be lulls between good prospects. We all have had slow times in dating and sometimes it seems like there are no decent guys or girls out there. But then again, every once in awhile a really nice person comes along that restores our faith in humanity and gives us a glimmer of hope that there might be such a person out there for us one day.

    3. Restrict who you date. Take things slow. Exchange emails and phone calls and get to know the person before meeting them. If they turn out to be one of the creepy guys then say no thanks and don’t expand any extra energy on them. Be more selective based on their profile and emails. See how they talk about these issues and what their outlook on them is.

    4. Taking yourself off Frumster just makes it more difficult for your bashert to find you. What happens if your Bashert joins Frumster in 3 months from now and searches high and low but can’t find you because you took yourself off?

    5. Don’t lose your open, loving, and trusting self. Nobody wants to be treated with suspicion or guilty until proven innocent. Be careful that your negative experiences shouldn’t carry over into how you treat new prospects. No decent guy wants to be treated with suspicion or like a criminal. It will turn them off and may ruin a perfectly good prospect.

    6. What happens if your bashert has different circles then your friends and families? I have met people on Frumster who I would have never otherwise met. I have met some strange birds as well as some amazing people. The key is to take things slow and do the weeding process. If you get worn out by it perhaps a break is warranted. But don’t close off an avenue for your bashert.

    Much hatzlocha in your search.

  7. Well, you know how R and I met and how happy we are, so you know how I feel about Frumster, but you also know I had rules.

    1. Do NOT EVER under ANY circumstances write to a guy that you like first. ONLY respond to the guys who write to you. Men are NOT interestd in EASY women for a serious relationship. They LOVE the chase, but once a woman is “caught” will quickly set her free. Fooling around is one thing, sex is out of the question.

    2. If the guy was serious, I made him travel to me FIRST. As you know, living in Canada doesn’t give you many options and sitting at home can be boring- BUT- when the guys have so much choice in their own backyard like NY, they are not as willing to travel, which is why SYAS often doesn’t work for Canadians. When you get one that is willing to make the effort to come after you, take it. NO half way, do NOT EVER make it easy. IF he’s the right one, he will do anything to be by your side.

    3. REFERENCS, REFERENCES, REFERENCES and lots of talking to your “shadchanim”. Even if these people are not involved in the shudduch in question, keep talking through your experiences and wants with loved ones.

    4. READ the book: “The Rules”- Live by them and you will get a man who will love you forever and treat you with the utmost respect, which is only what any woman deserves.

    HAVE FUN! Being fun is ATTRACTIVE!

  8. David ben Tzvi Hirsh

    @Esther — If someone wants to do a background check on me, that’s fine. In fact, I will give them all the history the need. At the same time, all is fair in love and war — if they want to verify my bonafides, I will expect them to facilitate the same.

    @Z! — WRT Point 1. Not these days. A good man is not interested in chasing or being chased. A good man is interested in a partner that acts in good faith. WRT Point 2. No opinion. Someone has to travel first, but again, Good Faith/Honest Broker applies. WRT Point 3. Absolutely and unequivocally sage advice! WRT Point 4. _The Rules_ is an excellent book — for recycling.

  9. Esther,

    I think my point was, I have NO idea what the view looks like from the womens side. You don’t know what it looks like from the guys side. There is an excellent reference book that explains all of this perfectly, it’s Dave Barry’s Complete Guide To Guys. It’s only funny, but the truth is not lost in the humor. The bottom line is, a guy either means well or he doesn’t. Find the guy who means well and most of THEM don’t really think too deeply into anything at all.

    You can say that girls don’t look for the bonking. I can tell you, oh yes, some absolutely do! Really frum ones too!

    And there is nothing wrong with that. Its a personal decision and as long as nobody is being forced into anything, there should be no complaints. Be respectful, be honest, and let the chips fall where the chemistry drops them.

  10. someone else,

    but there are some men out there that are really capable, believe it or not, of getting her in the position of WANTING IT real bad, instead of him forcing himself on her. then dumps her after. Just never calls again. You see, then he can say, well you wanted it, i didnt force you. OH WELL, it didnt work out. then yes, it is as you say, ” a personal decision, there should be no complaints ” then as you say, most of the men, dont really think too deeply into it. the woman are absolutely crushed, because YES, women think deeply.
    a womans chemistry, is controlled by her emotional connection, it doesnt just drop anywhere, as you say.
    i will take your advice and get that book, it will probably just reinforce what i am saying anyway, 😉

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