Last night I served chicken and rice for dinner. My kids are all partial to the dark meat, and if given a choice between a thigh and a drumstick they would go for the drumstick. Me too. When I cook a whole chicken there is a limit to how many drumsticks there are –chickens have only two legs each.
So one of my oh so wise children asked me why “they” don’t genetically modify chickens so that they come with ten legs each. That way everyone in the family will get enough and there will be some chicken left for seconds. I think he is onto something…
In the Pink 
i tend to only buy chicken legs which are cheaper than the whole chicken. i would think you can do that in mtl too or do they not sell chicken legs/dark meat in packages of 3-4 pieces? also, you can buy a family pack of just drumsticks but those are pricier than the whole leg together b/c lots of ppl. seem to prefer only the drumsticks apparently..
we can buy just the polkas, but sometimes i like roasting a whole chicken…
The drumstick is a great portion for a kid and it’s kid friendly.
R and I love the tops. (in the frum community it’s frowned upon to say “breast”.) I said it once at my B-i-l’s house in Lakewood. We all cracked up and B’H the kids seemed to have missed it!
so people eat tops and bottoms? snicker
Can’t say chicken breast? Can’t make a clean breast of things? Can’t walk two abreast? Can’t learn about the treaty of Brest-litovsk? What else can’t be done in frum company?
Z and Tesyaa,
LOL!!!
That would seem a bit extreme about the language, but I respect their rights to say so. 😉
what about the choshen mishpat that the Kohen Gadol wore? that translates as breastplate, no? Can’t say that either?
Hadassah,
I guess they would stick with the Hebrew. Some things I don’t understand…(sigh)
Is the author of this whom I think it is?
nopey nope
Had a friend’s mom (a rebbetzin btw) who went to buy kosher takeout in Teaneck. She asked for chicken breast, and the clerk (a real hocker) kept trying to correct her by saying “white meats” over and over.
what will we not be able to say next??
I say if we want to say “breasts” and “thighs,” we should be able to. If others want to say “euphemisms” for those terms, we can just let them and scratch our heads…we may not understand it, but we at least know where it came from…
why is breast any different than thigh??? why can you say one, not the other? although in israel many frum jews call thighs “mishulashim”, traingles.
Who said you can say thighs? Apparently they’re called tops & bottoms. But that sounds vaguely pornographic too.
*triangles
At the Pesach Sedar every year, breasts (Shadayim) are mentioned in the Haggadah. Maybe everybody is too tired (or drunk) to care but it makes me feel a little odd.
Shadayim are mentioned in Shir Hashirim too…they are just a part of the body.
Yes, and I was so embarressed in high school when I was learning shir hashirim in class and the teacher read that passuk! LOL.
i personally have no problem calling white meat breasts & dark meat thighs…i can go either way with that & i’m frum :)!
well, there you go, you are ruining the kids shidduch chances!! do you at least not say breast at the shabbat table?? 😉
it’s probably gonna be the new question to ask of potential shidduchim along with the ever so important ones like do they use plastic tablecloths on shabbos & what hand does the father uses to take the garbage out ;)!
what does the garbage hand have to do with anything? if its the right then he’s right wing, and if it’s the left he is too modern??? 😉
i think so :)! i would like to believe that that question isn’t really asked & that it’s just a joke but ya never know…speaking of breasts though (gasp), according to my MIL, when my SIL was trying to marry off my niece, she was asked by a shadchan what bra size the grandmother/my MIL was! now, i find that rather unbelievable & i really need to double check that one with my SIL but according to my MIL that was in fact asked of my SIL to which she replied that they were not interested in the shidduch…
thats just WRONG!! I would have said we don’t believe in restrictive undergarments and let everything just float about naturally….;)
LOL Hadassah! 🙂 🙂 🙂 !!!!
like i said i will double check that 1 with my SIL but a question that is def asked is whether the mother when shopping on the avenue (13th avenue in boro park of course b/c where else do jews live 😉 does she use a shopping cart or not. if she does, it’s bad news for the jews! unfortunately for my kiddies when we lived on the lower east side, i used my shopping cart all the time & i’m proud of it!! uh oh, there go all my kids shidduchim down the tubes :)!!!
Talk about a disqualifier!!!
😉
you betcha!
Hey everyone! it’s me again with some clarifications!! as promised, i called my SIL to ask about the bra question & lo & behold she said NO bra questions whatsoever were ever asked to her so i don’t know what my MIL was smokin’ ;)! then i asked if the garbage question was true & she said she never heard that one but she said that they do ask about how the family clears off the table-whether they stack the dishes or not!!!! well, THAT cracked me up b/c i NEVER heard that one & that sounded absolutely ridiculous with a capital R!!! anyhow, i just wanted to set the record straight about what are REAL questions that are asked (ridiculous though they may be) & what is simply NOT the truth tothe best of my knowledge!!
scraping plates at the table is a huge NoNo. Even I know that. No bra size q – not yet anyway. they already ask what size the girl is and what size her mother is.
Hadassah,
I’ve been reading many stories about what irrelevant requirements shidduchim have. Although I was not involved in shidduchim, it seems that from an outsider’s perspective it may have a lot to do with the materialism (I have heard a term “affluenza” that describes this) that has infected Jewish communities as well. Then we hear stories about how many matches fell through because of tablecloths or dishes one used on Shabbat or other ridiculous things.
Batya, I am in agreement with you. I hope that those of us who are married realized that it was the midot (attributes) of our spouses that made the difference. Sadly, times may have changed in the last decade and we have all the extra hurdles for anyone to meet their intended!
yep, i am not looking forward to the shidduch scene within the next few years when my 18 year old enters the “shidduch parsha/chapter” :(!
Maybe she will meet someone on her own without parental involvement?
Is that still allowed? 😉
somehow i doubt it b/c she’s gotten much more frum/RW in the Holy Land but truthfully there is a shidduch crisis even in the MO community b/c kids of marriageable age are not meeting each other the way they used to…i went to a whole lecture about it in my MO community awhile back about precisely this issue…
A while ago, we had an annual Singles Shabbaton at Baron Hirsch in Memphis (my home synagogue). Our Rabbi Emeritus, Rabbi Rafael Grossman, was one of the supporters of this weekend, which, at its peak, had between 100-200 singles attending (unfortunately, the event has been discontinued). I think there are some who would look down on this kind of weekend, but it did work.
As far as meeting each other as they used to…in my parents’ generation there were actually dances given by the Mens’ Club years ago. At one singles weekend I attended before I got married, there was some discussion among the singles regarding the lack of (mixed) dancing. I suppose some people were used to this (mixed dancing at a singles’ weekend) and not opposed to it (although I am aware of the halachic implications), but others would have opposed it, so I think that the organizers probably decided not to have mixed dancing in order not to create problems. I can respect a position like that.
sheldan,
my husband’s grandparents met & were the only ones in their families to stay religious on the lower east side of manhattan b/c of the young israel dances they attended!
btw, do you know rachel & adam brown formerly from memphis? just playing some jewish geography :)!
Batya (there is no “Reply” button on your message),
Jewish Geography is my favorite sport! Let’s play! 🙂
Unfortunately, Rachel and Adam Brown do not sound familiar. There is a prominent insurance man in the area named Larry Brown that we’ve known for many years.
WHAT?!!
That is a NEW one. (I am shaking my head at that one.)
I think in our house we refer to the chicken breast as tops and thighs as bottom. When I asked you what kind of chicken you and KoD eat, I probably wrote “do you eat top or bottom?”
So we are doing great for shidduchim….except I write things and sign my name and according to my daughter this is not good cause people will google my name to check up on me. OIY VEY. So now I have various aliases so my girls can get married.
LLL,
NOW I’m getting depressed. 😦
What is this world coming to?! Who the heck cares (I KNOW now this is a rhetorical question 🙂 ) whether you use tablecloths or paper plates on Shabbat, which hand you use for taking out the garbage (I wonder what they would say if the WOMAN takes out the garbage!), shopping on 13th Avenue (and if you live west of the Hudson River and your city doesn’t have a 13th Avenue, I guess that counts many of us out), someone ELSE’s bra size (!), whether they listen to this or that Jewish recording artist, what you call CHICKEN PARTS, whether you use a Mac or PC in the house (another “holy war” that could be brought up), or any other thing (other than legitimate differences in cultures, e.g. Hasidic, Yeshivish, Litvish, Modern, etc. and even these can be accommodated)?
I think even those who are involved in shidduchim must have their heads spinning!
Disclaimer: I think I made up some new distinctions in the above paragraph. However, it wouldn’t surprise me if people did distinguish on those grounds!
Sheldan, it has got beyond ridiculous. I am hoping my boys meet their future wives without intervention from me….I cannot imagine having to put up with all this stuff
the boys are so handsome, bli ayin horah, hadassah. IY”H they should have no problem. It seems the girls have more difficulty getting dates than the boys 😦
YOU HAVE A COMPUTER!!!! OSSER!!! OSSER!!! TRAIF!!!
I show my nees and have a computer, and I blog and I ride a Harley. I am so not doing shidduchim for da boyzes!! lol
I am a little surprised that nobody mentioned the overarching shidduch requirement – MONEY!
It overcomes almost any other obstacle that might exist (including things like criminal parents that may be spending time in prison). It even overcomes using the words breast and thigh for fowl 🙂
good point mark! when i was speaking with my SIL earlier to separate fact from fiction she did mention that support of the couple was definitely discussed beforehand esp in the case of the kollel (husband learning full-time in yeshiva) couples which my niece is part of as well. & yes, white-collar crime is nisht geferlach (not so bad) especially if the $$ will be forthcoming ;)!
i, for one, have a major problem with the concept of having to commit to supporting an able-bodied son-in-law b/c what if G-d forbid, the unthinkable happens & the parents b/c of whatever reason cannot keep up their financial commitment. does that mean that the couple will be heading to divorce court? it is such an unfair responsibility to place on the parents & i feel it in unacceptable!
b/c what if G-d forbid, the unthinkable happens & the parents b/c of whatever reason cannot keep up their financial commitment.
I’ve heard of cases in which the boys family requests a few years worth of support to be deposited in “escrow” rather than doled out on a monthly basis to, at least partially, solve this problem.
Of course there are other major problems with this system, most of all that it is morally bankrupt.
i also have other problems with supporting an able bodied son-in-law b/c doesn’t it stipulate in the ketubah that a husband is obligated to provide for his wife if divorced ensues. clearly, a husband can only provide for the wife if he is working…even though the kollel lifestyle was pushed on me during my HS years by various teachers, i never understood it & till today i continue to have major issues with the whole concept.
oh don’t get me started on this!
Mark,
I think I mentioned the term “affluenza” before–and I think I got it from some other source. I think our generation has a bad case of this. Apparently we have to “keep up with the Schwartzes (our equivalent of the Joneses)” and that involves material wealth. Frankly, it gets disgusting, but then I’m old school (and proud of it 🙂 ) when it comes to these things.
Tesyaa, You Know What.
?
That’s why my family moved out of Brooklyn. Because of ridiculous stuff like that. Soon we won’t be able to say “elbows” lest they turn on the yeshiva bochrim.
but don’t bochurim have two elbows of their own??
That is what annoys me about all these chumrot (strictures). Others expect us to observe THEIRS too.
I respect someone’s restrictions, but that doesn’t mean that I have to observe them.
I think we know about the fact that sexual impuses must be controlled (am I going out of bounds with language here? 😉 ), but regardless of the “fences” we erect, it is still up to the person to control themselves.
Hadassah, haven’t we drifted a lot from the original topic of this post? 🙂
i love the drifting in the comments. Drift Away!
What else can’t be done in frum society/talked about: breastfeeding. In the Hebrew Yated you can’t even mention the word “hanakah” (same root as tinok, baby)
So instead of breast feeding, what would one say…top feeding? YOISH!!!
No, you would say “white meat feeding” 🙂
Mark, LOL
But it’s no good in Hebrew because “white meat” or “basar lavan” means pork! 🙂
MII,
I was a subscriber to your blog (I think my service got interrupted), but I do remember you talking about that topic in some of your posts. Talk about trying to avoid words…(sigh)!
in all seriousness though, i think tops is more general as it refers to the breast & the wings & bottoms is also more general as it refers to the thigh (gasp) & the drumstick so i think perhaps tops & bottoms are used to talk about the whole quarter of the chicken as opposed to thigh & breast which are more specific chicken parts. for example, at the butcher’s you will see a label for chicken thighs if that is all they are including but chicken bottoms when it includes the drumstick with the thigh & the same with the white meat/tops where if they are only selling the breast meat it will specify exactly that, chicken breasts..
I’m a white meat girl, and I hate the drumsticks — the weird and gross cartilage or whatever that ends up on them gave me nausea as a child.
At any rate, this is an interesting discussion. What not to say!? Oy. The list is long. Very long. This is why women shouldn’t speak you know 🙂
we aren’t speaking, Chavi, we are typing, so it’s allowed! 😉
We also prefer chicken bottoms, and around here, they are usually a bit less per pound than for the chicken breasts. But I love a nice, moist, whole roast chicken, so we also have that once in a while. Worst comes to worst, if nobody eats the white meat, I have 2 lunches to take with me to work during the week.
I’ve never heard of using ‘tops’ to refer to the white meat, and I sell kosher chicken. Is it a regional thing or an orthodox thing?
i think it’s an orthodox thing…but i could be wrong. anyone?
I never heard it until I got to NY. They accept those “naughty” words in Canada.
did not read all the comments.
We buy trays of thighs and pulka.
I will buy BREASTS only when I make shintzel or pineapple chicken.
Breast is a body part as to a penis, and an elbow. Women have vaginas. I am not being crude just stating a fact. My kids from the time they could talk have called all their body parts by their proper names.
oh do I have a story……sigh. Maybe another time.
I also taught my kids the right words from day one. its the right way.
Reminds me of a scene from “Kindergarten Cop.” Arnold Schwarzenegger (playing a kindergarten teacher when his partner becomes too sick to work at her original assignment) has to take a female child to the bathroom. One of the little boys is the son of a gynecologist:
Little Boy: Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina.
Arnold’s character: Thanks for the tip.
Tila, I guess that it is surprising to me that such a fuss could be made over the words “breast” and “thighs.”
We also teach our kids the exact words for their body parts. Except our 4 year old boys use “bulbul” (or actually “bulbulina” because they are little), the Hebrew word for penis.
I am making turkey TOP for supper. It’s muttar!
I love turkey boobage!
Hot Turkey Titties almost ready, come on over hadass!
Hadassah and LLL,
I KNEW it had to happen!
LOL!!!!!!!
My daugther thinks it’s hilarious to call the chicken breast, “chicken boob”. Since she is almost 11, there are lots of booby conversations going on. She said, “Ma, now my boobs are small so I call them “Tittles”, hopefully when I’m older they’ll be “Tatanators”. OH MY LORD!
maybe it’s a good thing I only have sons, although they can be very body oriented too…
these comments are great; thank you.
🙂
And this column is so educational, too… 🙂
I can’t believe what I started! It seemed so innocent to me at first. I know it’s all pretty ridiculous.