No Kiddush between 6pm and 7pm

Again, thanks to the mommy websites for bringing this question to my attention. #JewCrew – is there an inyan against making Kiddush on Friday night between 6 and 7 pm? Or 5.52pm and 6.52pm , or is it between 6.52pm and 7.52pm? If there is such an inyan, why, where did it originate, and how come I never heard of this before, having been frum my whole life??!!

35 responses to “No Kiddush between 6pm and 7pm

  1. Shulchan Aruch mentions not making kiddush (on red wine) during the Sixth hour due to the presence of Mars (the red planet) in the sky. In reality it should vary between place to place, but people for some reason (as far as I’ve seen) seem to do it from 6-7.

  2. I make kiddush after we wash. Which is after brachot for all the kids and shalom aleichem.

    I don’t look at the clock.

    Besides, is Mars really in the sky between 6 and 7 every Friday evening? And should we even care about Mars being there in the first place? Sounds some like some avoda-zara-eey thing carried over from chukas hagoyim astrology stuff (I know Jewish literature also mentions astrology stuff – probably from the same avoda zarah source).

  3. There is such an “inyan” — if by inyan you mean dumb superstition ignored by the sensible. Only really whacked out Hasidim follow this one.

  4. Sorry H but that sounds like such a bunch of hogwash to me! We make kiddush whenever hubby comes back from shul no matter WHAT the time is & I grew up frum my whole life (nearly 42 years) & my father happens to be a Rabbi to boot & that is news to me…

  5. anon – Can you be respectful? And I wouldn’t quite call Shulchan Aruch something that only “wacked out hassidim” follow.

    I heard that the red planet – red – represents anger, and we shouldn’t make kiddush when anger rules so as not to give power to that midda.

    • mrs. mottel – I heard that the red planet – red – represents anger, and we shouldn’t make kiddush when anger rules so as not to give power to that midda

      1. Is the red planet really there at that time?
      2. If the red planet is 2 inches further away a minute after 7, how does it make a difference?
      3. Why do you say red represents anger? (i.e. what’s the source in the Torah)
      4. Why does Mars mean red in the first place?
      5. How exactly does the position of a planet influence ones middah of anger?

    • Mrs Mottel,

      DO you respect Jehovah Witnesses who refuse all blood transfusions? Do you respect Digamber monks who go around naked because they say they are wearing the environment? Do you respect Catholics who think they are eating God’s body? No, you justifiably do not. So why should I respect your voodoo idea that a hunk of rock 10 million miles away has some influence over my personality?

      It’s idiocy, and by waking you up to the fact that its idiocy, I’m doing you a big favor. Also, don’t say that its not something only Hasidim follow, when the fact is this so called halacha is in reality ignored by everyone but the looniest of the loony tunes.

  6. We also hold by this, and the funny thing is we have always done it and i never asked why, so i just yelled across the room to my husband and he said the same thing about Mars and stuff. Interesting how sometimes we just do things by rote until someone just wakes you up with a big ol WHY?

  7. For those who wish to look further in the subject – please see Shulchan Aruch 271:1 Magen Avraham 1 and Shulchan Aruch Harav 271:3

  8. It is brought in halacha.

    The Aruch Hashulchan summarizes my thoughts: “It is astonishing?! Chas v’shalom to think that we are under the influence of the mazalos”.

    • Chas v’shalom to think that we are under the influence of the mazalos”.

      Bingo!

    • My thoughts are summed up by Nahar Shalom 30b, the Chida Shem Gedolim under Haim Vital, and the Ben Ish Hai Peticha Rishona-
      Because of the many aveirot involved in stealing Rav Haim Vital’s works before he permitted them to be published, great errors and worthless superstitions entered into the transmission of Kabbalah that spread to Europe, and thus we cannot rely upon the early Ashkenazi Kabbalists.
      While there is an inyan that Mars is governing force of Din, the Arizal says in Sha’ar HaKavvanot Drushei Leil Shabbat that all the dinim are removed on Shabbat.
      Furthermore the Arizal says in Sha’ar Ruah HaKodesh, and Rav Haim Vital writes in Sha’arei Kedusha, that Mazalot do not affect Klal Yisrael, or even an individual Jew, unless he comes under their sway by practicing Kabbalah ma’asit(magic) which is ossur, and the Arizal calls avoda zera.

  9. In case I wasn’t clear, the Aruch Hashulchan is saying that the custom is a shtus and he can’t fathom how anyone could keep it…

  10. It amazes me how a simple conversation can become so rude. I am so disappointed in the lack of Ahavas Yisroel in this conversation. I think Mottel has worded it very well. Maybe a few of you could benefit from some Mitzvahs Chinuch review and not worry about who does and doesn’t make Kiddush between 6-7

    • sheva, Christianity started out with small changes in belief from Judaism. And boom, 2000 years later we have >1 billion of them and only 15 million of us. Not to mention them engaging in wholesale slaughter of us every few generations.

      So to the contrary, we have both ahavat Yisrael and ahavat Yehadut.

      • You’re comparing the words of the Magen Avraham to those of …

        • You’re comparing the words of the Magen Avraham to those of …

          Yes, I am comparing the words of the Magen Avraham (an interpreter of Torah) to other interpreters of Torah about 2000 years ago. The huge difference is that most of the time the Magen Avraham was correct about his interpretation of Torah, while those other interpreters were more and more wrong about their interpretations of Torah as time went by. Eventually they simply discarded the Torah entirely.

    • Its not rude to denounce a dumb damaging idea. Its actually mitzvah.

  11. I remember this from my Shabbosim in Crown Heights. I thought it was a neat custom when I learned why. Although, it meant that some men ran home or left early from shul to make kiddush before 6, or sat around in shul after davening chatting with friends while their families were home waiting for them since they couldn’t make kiddush until 7. All I remember was wanting to start dinner already…

  12. I can’t remember the source offhand (e_fink: I must have wiped my hands on my pants after netilat yadayim), and I’m not near my library to check…

    I recall learning this halakha applied between the 6th and 7th sha’ot zmaniyot, which correspond to the roughly 60 minutes between candle lighting and Tzet halochavim, when one cannot eat anyway due to Sfaeika Diyoma.

    If that is the case, then the Mars thing is merely a “Scientific” mnemonic for a for an otherwise halakhically base event.

  13. It’s a halacha in Shul”u & Mugan Avraham
    See the Machtzis Hashekel for better explanation

    The Mg”a says “if you have Guests for the Seuda, don’t wait”
    Chasidim interpreted it as if ‘in the Zchus of Hachnasas Orchim – you’re safe’

    Chasidim in general are ‘Makpid’ on this one, but in Belz they say ‘Av Harachmim’ (from taking out the Torah) ויציל נפשותינו מן השעות הרעות….

    It’s not that were ‘under this Mazal’, It’s just that this hour Friday is ‘bad timing’ for Kiddush (might be a Kabala thing)

    Waiting with Kiddish till 7 (Shalom Alechem 6:45) means leaving Shul 6:30, Davening this week we finished by 6:00, this half hour learning with my 2 Kids in Shul is like Gan Eden on this World
    מעין עולם הבא יום שבת מנוחה

  14. Interesting about Mars!

    @Noah Roth – please can you explain your “cannot eat anyway” and Sfaeika Diyoma comments of 60 minutes after candle lighting? Must 60 minutes transpire between candle lighting and the start of the meal? Thanks.

  15. I thought it was because of Safek between day and night.

    Some people don’t make kiddisch in the hour where there is a Safek if it is day or night. Paradoxically, they do make kiddusch when it is still outright day, before the Safek hour sets in…

  16. lady lock and load

    Hopefully KoD won’t adopt this minhag as Hadassah cannot be without wine for that long. 🙂

  17. Isn’t Mars always in the sky???

  18. Mrs Mottel,

    DO you respect Jehovah Witnesses who refuse all blood transfusions? Do you respect Digamber monks who go around naked because they say they are wearing the environment? Do you respect Catholics who think they are eating God’s body? No, you justifiably do not. So why should I respect your voodoo idea that a hunk of rock 10 million miles away has some influence over my personality?

    It’s idiocy, and by waking you up to the fact that its idiocy, I’m doing you a big favor.

  19. Let’s all be careful about the namecalling.

    Frankly, I never heard of this either, and it does sound like nonsense. But if some want to observe that, that’s their business.

  20. Mars is the Roman god of war, and he gained a special position in Roman thought as Mars Ultor (Mars the Avenger) after the Roman civil war between the heir and friends of Julius Caesar and the senators who murdered him.

    As the Roman god of war, he (and the planet named for him) *may* have gained infamy among Jews after the Jewish wars with Rome in the 1st and 2nd centuries CE. My dissertation is on the impact of the first Jewish war on Roman religion, so this is only a hypothesis – but there may be some remnants of animosity towards Rome in that tradition.

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