WWYD – Shidduchim / Marriage

Shamelessly taken off a messageboard:

A kallah [bride] asked me to post this and solicit your opinions.

The kallah is in her late 20s, and smoked 1/2 a pack a day from age 13 until just a few weeks ago. Does she have to tell the chosson [groom]? She thinks he might have noticed, but they have never discussed it.

(p.s. There is no “warning signs” to be seen here. She just wants to do the right thing. )

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Medical Reports in dating – Heinous or Harmless

From Hashkafa.com

Can I see a medical report about your sexual / emotional health? Is this an appropriate question when dating BTs?

Is this done? Is it offensive? Is it considered a reasonable request?

Is it taboo to talk to a date about their previous sexual history, what kind of people they’ve had relationships with, what happened, did they get their fingers burnt, did they need therapy, did they get so badly grossed out or hurt by a previous partner that they now have fears, anxieties or inhibitions, did they ever get raped by a previous partner or some other random party goer? Was the rape first degree, second degree or what? Did they ever do drugs? Are there any long term consequences of their drug use?

I just read the above paragraphs on hashkafah.com and I am a little disturbed. Obviously the person posing the question feels that this is something that should be done. I think my issue with the question is if you ask this of BTs, you have to ask of ALL the people you date – BTs, FFBs, converts, everyone. Don’t discriminate. But I am not even sure if this is appropriate at all. Thoughts?

Heinous or Harmless – dating world

You have a single girlfriend who is, as they say, in the parsha ie dating for marriage. She needs guidance. You are sympathetic to her story and want to help her all you can. However she prefers to speak with your husband, finds his advice more helpful for some reason. You have no reason to distrust her, but it makes you uncomfortable. Hubby thinks you are over reacting – it’s not like either of them are hiding their conversations from you.

Is this appropriate? Should single women be calling a married man for advice about anything? For that matter, should married women call someone else’s husband for advice about anything? Eg furniture, cars, politics etc.

What are your thoughts?

(not my story, not my husband)

WWYD – Two Timer

Your friend is dating Mr X. Seriously dating, as in talking marriage. You happen to hear from somewhere else that the same Mr X is actually dating someone else as well, in a different city. Upon further investigation it becomes obvious that he is two-timing both of these women. Do you tell your friend? Do you tell her he was seen with someone else in a different city and offer to give her the number of the person that knows the other woman he is dating, for verification purposes? Do you stay silent? Do you tell yourself it is none of your business but gently hint that he may not be right for her?

WWYD??

Heinous or Harmless – Dating

From Matzav.com

Dear Matzav.com Editor,

My heart is so broken. I have been carrying a bleeding heart for over a month and cannot withstand it anymore. I do not want to tell my parents nor friends what I did, lest they make fun of me, yet I have to unburden myself, so I will tell you, on Matzav, what has been eating me up, killing me, and torturing me for the past month. Matzav has spoken to me about what I will share here, but unfortunately, to protect my privacy, I have to withhold my name from all of you.

About a month ago, my best friend living in Eretz Yisroel – for shana rishonah [first year of marriage]- called me up and said that this past Friday night, they had the most perfect suitable bochur for me sitting at their Shabbos table. He is learning in Yeshiva ______ [removed by editor] in Eretz Yisroel. She said that before I fly all the way from New York, I should talk to him over the phone, get to know him, and then, if things are okay, make the huge trip.

I agreed.

The boy called me up the following week and we hit it off real well. As a matter of fact, the phone conversation lasted a good two hours. We arranged another phone date. That one lasted for a good five hours.

I couldn’t believe how smooth the conversation flowed. We both found it very enjoyable to talk on the phone and decided that after just another three more calls, I’ll book my ticket.

The next two conversations were also wonderful. Then, during the second to last conversation we had, the boy indirectly requested a picture of me, only to get a better idea. By that time, I felt very comfortable to send him a picture of me.

The next day, I just couldn’t wait to hear from him and what he thought of me, because, after all, pictures can sometimes say a lot.

Soon enough, he called me and thanked me for sending a picture. In my head, I interpreted that to mean that he was impressed by my picture. But then he started telling me how boys tend to be very gashmiyusdik [focused on physical] and how it is very hard to look beyond the physical.

Honestly, I started shaking. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing! What?!

But I continued to listen. He went on to explain that I am a very wonderful girl, an excellent Bais Yaakov girl, etc. As he was rambling about my middos [good qualities], I couldn’t believe what I was hearing! After almost 16 hours of pleasant phone conversation, you are willing to say no because of my picture?

My heart was pounding. I was numb. I never, ever felt so degraded, so low, so cheap!

He ended off by saying that even though he’s not so much into my picture, he will overlook it because I have fantastic middos.

I told him that it’s okay. I wished him much luck and hung up the phone.

That night, I cried myself to sleep. Actually, for the next month, I cried myself to sleep, not because he didn’t think I was pretty enough, but rather because of how degraded I felt!

And now I turn to you, the mothers and fathers of boys. What are we teaching our kids? Who do you think you are to dare request a picture?

[Name Withheld For Privacy]

A Bleeding Heart

New York

HSM: So folks, is the bleeding heart right? Was the guy wrong for saying he will overlook her picture? Should he have waited to meet her before saying something negative about the way she looked? Should he have requested a picture before calling her? Is she right to be so upset? Was she right to not let him continue even if he was willing? Would you date someone without seeing their picture first? Did he give her false hope or is he well within his rights to turn her down based on looks? Was his behaviour heinous or harmless? Was her behaviour heinous or harmless? Discuss…..

Can do better?

There is this new website that was just launched. Basically singles upload their photograph and the photographs of the people they are interested in and other users vote on whether the person is perfect for them, whether they can do better or the other person is out of their league. People actually trust this site to help them with their choice.

The CEO says

“We understand singles are searching for quality, not quantity, and CanDoBetter.com increases the odds of finding a suitable dating partner.”

Sigh, I mean, really – this is all about dating someone based solely on their looks. How is that quality? You can’t tell a person’s character just by a picture alone!! Such a shallow society we live in.

WWYD? – dating

A single girlfriend of mine (please forgive me for shamelessly stealing your story but you did tweet it) was recently set up with a bloke. They had some phone conversations before they actually met, to see if there was really a point to meeting. The conversations went ok, but he used a word that offended her. He used the very bad N word to refer to a person of colour. It bothered my friend and she wondered if it was even worth giving this guy a chance after he said that. From what I remember English was not his first language, but in my book that is still no excuse.

My friend is a very sweet person and after some thought and discussion with trusted friends she wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Seeing as everything else seemed to have been ok with the guy she did agree to see him. It didn’t work out.

What would you have done? Would you have gone out with him? Would the bad language have been a total deal breaker? Would you have thought, like I did (I can be judgmental), that if someone can be so rude about another person that they probably don’t have good middot? (standards of behaviour) Would you have been Dan L’Chaf Zechut (give benefit of the doubt) like my friend was? Has this type of thing happened to you? How did you handle it?

How many did you date?

In recent conversations with a friend, who is in her twenties and married, she happened to mention that her husband had dated almost 50 girls before he met her, and she had dated almost 20 guys. I was kinda shocked. I mean, I dated too, but I didn’t count how many failures I had! It just seems like an awful lot, but apparently when you do shidduchim it’s common. Since that conversation I have been trying to work out how many guys I dated before each of my marriages. By dating I think I am supposed to count each first date. Not phone dates, or internet chats etc. Each person that I met in the flesh, as it were.  Just bear in mind I did NOT shidduch date either time.

So here are my numbers. First time around I was 20 when I got engaged. I had dated 7 boys including the one I married. Second time around I was significantly older and wiser and well entrenched in my 30s. I did a lot of internet dating as most of the eligible guys were in NY. But I actually went out with 7 and married lucky number 7. To me that’s a lot in 18 months of serious dating.

Do people keep some kind of a log? I am sitting here counting on my fingers, wondering if someone was so forgettable that I….forgot him.

So, care to share your numbers?

“When you meet the right one you will just know”

This is a poll for my married readers, or those in committed relationships.

When did you know that the person you were dating was THE ONE? Was it a feeling that grew over time? Was it a lighting strike from above, love at first sight? Do you remember what it was that helped you make the decision to transition from dating to marriage?

Please also include your religion, level of religiosity, how long you dated, how long you are married and anything else that you think is relevant.

Thanks.

My kids are in shidduchim!!

No, not mine. Not now, hopefully not ever. Yes, that’s right. I hope they find their other half by themselves without my involvement. They are good looking boys and very personable, so they won’t have any problems. I do everything wrong anyway so I would fail big time with the shidduch checklist.

Let’s see how I would fail as a potential Mother in Law:

First and foremost I am divorced from my children’s father. Major strike against me. I use paper plates; sometimes I use a coloured table cloth on Shabbat; I totally stack dishes at the table; I sing zemiros; I am a loud opinionated wench; I think women have an important place in orthodox Judaism – and it isn’t being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. (Wait a sec, barefoot isn’t tznius!!!). I serve gefilte fish on Shabbat; I wear a seatbelt in the car at all times; I don’t cover my hair in front of my boys; I watch movies and TV; I drink unsupervised milk; and I rock on to 80s music; I wear pajama pants at night; I let my boys use gel in their hair when they don’t have school. Oh. And I blog.

How would I measure up?

I have a tiny waist and can squeeze into a size 2 if I have to. And that’s after birthing 4 kids. (Why that should matter with having sons, I don’t know). My hair is covered, mostly with a wig, when I am outside the house. We keep kosher and Shabbat and Taharat HaMishpacha (family purity). I gave the kids a yeshiva education. I don’t lie or cheat or steal.

So many people that I know will say, I have kids in shidduchim so I cannot admit to that (whatever THAT is) in public. It will count against my kids. I can’t go to the movies with you because I have kids to marry off. I can’t breathe in public in case someone might see my chest rising and think I was being immodest and it would count against my kids in shidduchim.

Whatever happened to honest and true family values?!! Isn’t that important too when looking for a life partner?

So, dear readers, what other insane questions have you been asked or heard of when having kids or friends in the shidduch parsha?

Disclaimer: This post is semi-tongue-in-cheek. If any of my kids wanted me to arrange shidduchim for them I would. It is just meant to highlight the insanity that I believe has somehow contributed to the shidduch crisis today.